New Casting of SC III/S3 V8 Engine Crankcase?

[Ian Stone]

Hi All,

Seeking some advice or tales of experience from anyone else who has been in a similar position to me.

I have a 1963 S3, the engine of which has suffered the all-too-common problem of crankcase internal corrosion and cracking beneath the cylinder liners: any attempt at repair would be unreasonably expensive and the problem would be likely to resurface further down the road. (No pun intended!) It is a little disappointing not to be able to keep the original crankcase - one of the reasons I bought this car is because it has been comparitively little used and - with the exception of the engine problem - is in overall remarkable condition. I've been hunting around for a replacement crankcase or engine and, of course, have discovered how thin on the ground they are. Not having an exchange unit to offer on a rebuilt engine incurs a not-inconsiderable surcharge from the companies who supply these engines (if they have any in stock - so far, I have found only earlier SC II and S2 engines on offer: mine is a later model, without camshaft bearings: I would prefer to try to keep to the original delivery specs of the car if I can); and buying a used unit from a private seller or scrap yard carries the risk that one could well encounter the same problem - a bit of an unknown until the liners are pulled - in which case it's money down the drain.

After considering the options, I contacted two foundries - one in the UK and one in New Zealand - with an enquiry regarding having a new crankcase cast to the original pattern. The UK foundry has previously cast crankcases for the BDC Vintage Spares Scheme; the New Zealand foundry has experience with Ferrari cylinder heads: both have replied with very similar estimates of the costs involved. The biggest expense, of course, is in the tooling up if the original tooling is not available: approximate estimates come in at something over £10 000: but once the tooling is done, as many casts can be made as required. There is also the machining of the raw casts to be carried out: but the overall costs appear to be not unreasonable in comparison to buying a rebuilt engine with a surcharge or taking a gamble on a used engine. Actually, if it can be done, I believe I'd prefer a new, reproduction crankcase - one imagines that it would power the car for another 50 years, by which stage I shall have departed this earthly plane and it will be somebody else's problem! As an individual, it's a bit more than I would like to spend without being able to recoup some of the initial outlay for tooling up, so I'm wondering if there are others out there who might be interested in either coming in on the project or who would consider a new cast crankcase if it can be produced for a reasonable cost?

Just a thought - any experience or advice from others would be much appreciated.

Ian

[John Murch]

Might be worth a chat with these people
http://www.phantomengineering.com

Would a call to the BDC office be worthwhile, to see if there is someone at Bentley Motors who could be helpful? Obviously if the patterns were still about it would be a huge saving.

John

PS - welcome to the forum and good luck, it will be worth all the hardwork in the end!

[Ian Stone]

Hi John,

Thank you very much for the link and the suggestions - much appreciated: I'll contact the BDC office and Phantom Engineering and see what might come out of it. I have also been in touch with Kenneth Lea (Crewe Spares Scheme) and he has been looking into what solutions there might be. As you say, I'm sure it will all be worth it in the end - I think that patience is the key...!

Regards, Ian

[Stephen Blakey]

I delivered a frost damaged MKVI block to Slindens for crack stitching a while back. They had just finished a Crewe 6.25 V8 block which they showed me and said they get a few of those, so I am aware of the problem.

I'm guessing there is no way you could adapt a 6.75L block as they are available for next to nothing?

The re-manufacture sounds like a fascinating project. I am pleasantly surprised by the quote for the pattern equipment. My guess would have had an extra nought on it (and the rest). If the drawings still exist, they will be in the RREC archive, which you can search online.

You will get lots of folks telling you it can't be done. A pal of mine announced he was going build, from scratch, brand new old gearboxes (not Bentley) and we all said how marvellous whilst thinking, well you can imagine. Anyway the first one is now in a car and running sweetly and quietly. All you need is steely determination (and lots of money).

Do keep us informed

[Christopher Carnley]

The aluminium silicon alloy was known to corrode even when the workshop manual was written, and the blocks had to be heated to remove the liners so as not to destroy the corroded seal bridge.

The "road" is congested with problems and the biggest hurdle is to get
someone interested in doing the job, for what is not an exotic car.

The Phantom 111 project took years to gestate and nurse, and the cars are really museum pieces, and not all that desirable.

From a practical point of view, contact Introcar in South London initially, then if no parts, buy a good Silver Spirit engine with all the "bells and whistles attached".

[Ian Stone]

Hello gents,

Thank you for all the replies - great to hear the different ideas that are coming in.

I mailed Phantom Engineering, as John suggested, and was informed by them also that Introcar have been looking into recasting new blocks: I am about to mail John Tupper at Introcar with a query: hopefully there'll be some interesting and positive news there.

The mechanic who is helping me with my car did mention that a T Series block is almost the same as the S Series except for the engine mounting points/brackets. In Australia, this would mean applying for a vehicle modification certificate - I don't know the costs involved yet but I'll look into it. Personally, I would rather not have to start modifying - I prefer to keep things as close to the original specs as possible (without spending a ridiculous amount to do so.) The Silver Spirit engine may be an idea if I can't find another solution though - thanks for the suggestion Stephen.

I have a trip to Los Angeles at the end of June/beginning July, so I'll call by Tony Handler's workshop there and have a chat with him: he has said that he would probably be able to supply a serviceable S3 block, so there is some hope of sticking to the original specs - I would still be interested in a new casting if it is going to be available though! I'll keep you posted on developments - thank you all again for the ideas - much appreciated.

Cheers, Ian

[Stephen Blakey]

For info, I recently saw a tidy looking and allegedly running 6.75L V8 on ebay.co.uk which failed to sell at £400.

[Ian Stone]

Thanks Stephen! I'll take a look as soon as I can - just about to head off to work...I suppose I'd better start showing an interest in things other than Bentley crankcases! I have had an interesting reply from Introcar - will update when I have time. Cheers for now

[Christopher Carnley]

The S3 /SC111 is 6.23 litres, and from the earliest flawed S2 engine to the final Arnage, there have been almost 60 different cylinder blocks.

John Tupper (Ex Oceania) has been on with this project for some time now.

[Ian Stone]

Hi Christopher,

I was aware that the engine has been developed over the years but certainly didn't realise that there have been as many as 60 different versions - quite a sum...

I had a very informative mail from John Tupper - and, as you say, he has been onto this project for a while. It does look promising - but it's going to move slowly, with negotiations with Bentley still ongoing. Ben Handford at Flying Spares mentioned very much the same.

Under the circumstances, there is certainly no point in my pursuing this avenue: I'll wait to hear the progress from those already involved in the project; and, hopefully, if it comes to fruition, I can consider a new crankcase later. In the meantime, I'm awaiting news on a serviceable unit - it looks hopeful - should hear shortly. I'll let you all know!

Cheers, Ian