Wanted: old piece of veneered wood for Mk VI/R-Type/SD dash

Paul Bennett · Joined: 05 Mar 2014 Posts: 90

I have had a period positive earth rev counter made for my 1954 R-Type and wish to mount it in the open offside cubby-hole.
Some sort of wood fillet will be required and it occurred to me that the open cubby-hole is almost a mirror image of the lidded nearside glove compartment, so that a lid could be reversed; altered to fit in the space and the clock aperture enlarged to 100 mm.

Does anyone, (perhaps a "moderniser") happen to have a surplus old glove box lid, or even a bit of old veneered dashboard that could be cut to size?

Happy to pay for it plus, of course, p. & p.

Anything considered; condition need not be perfect (woodworm excepted!)

regards
Paul

Philip Edginton · Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 8:02 pm Post subject:

Have a look on E bay, there are a few Bentley/RR breakers on there that could help.just give them a rough minimum size and colour. Most of them are very helpful.

Stephen Blakey · Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2020 9:19 pm Post subject:

Hi Paul,

The dashboard from the car I sold to a special builder went with it, and hopefully will be installed in the 2 seater coupé he's been building full time for the last four years. Only a couple more years to go, he reckons.

What wood does your car have? It varies a lot.

Paul Bennett · Joined: 05 Mar 2014 Posts: 90

Hi Stephen,
for expediency have sent photo direct to you.
Regards Paul

Philip Edginton · Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 1:55 pm Post subject:

Just asking if you have attempted to contact any RR/Bentley breakers to see if they can help you. It is surprising what they are willing to give away to cement good relationships these days.

Paul Bennett · Joined: 05 Mar 2014 Posts: 90

Yes thankyou.
Already done to no avail otherwise would not need to request here.

Philip Edginton · Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 3:07 pm Post subject:

can you tell us which ones please. might be able to twist an arm if you have not asked yet.

Stephen Blakey · Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 8:58 pm Post subject:

Hi Paul,

Thanks for the photo. Would you like me to put it on here in the hope that someone could identify your timbers, for it looks like there are two?

I've got various old politically incorrect hardwoods that I've been keeping for retirement projects. I can cut and thickness a piece to a pattern if you'd like to send one, however it won't look like old wood any more.

Paul Bennett · Joined: 05 Mar 2014 Posts: 90

Hello Stephen,
that is a very kind offer but I think the woodwork needs to be done locally and not at a distance, ie. for trial fittings, etc.

Had not had the car with me as radiator decided to fail last week and is now away for a re-core.

However, just paid a hospital visit and have taken some more useful photos herewith:-

Someone, years ago, must have gone a bit over-enthusiastic when they discovered that polyurathene varnish had been invented!
The best original wood colour is centre and glove-box lid, whereas the top rail (that has the demister eyelid vents) seems to have been overdone to a darker colour; likewise around the open cubby hole!

(Have just spent a frustrating time failing to upload the pics on here; the Laurie Fox version was much easier to do!)
So will e-mail to you.
Regards Paul

Christopher Carnley · Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 8:16 am Post subject:

The original veneers on the Standard Steel cars were American Black Walnut, so called as the nuts are black.
Mostly burrs with some flame veneers from the roots, and cross banded on the margins.
The trimmer around the windscreen is Brazilian/Honduras mahogany, steam bent and fitted onto the top rail.
The wood was stained to a uniform colour and the original synthetic lacquers were also tinted. They were worked and burnished "flat".
The sunlight over the years has both bleached some of the wood, and darkened other areas.
See the body section in the Service Bulletins for more information, it can be downloaded from the RROCA site,F.O.C.

Nicholas Simons · Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 8:34 am Post subject:

The easiest solution to this conundrum is to employ the services of your local Cabinet Maker, who will find a matching veneer and make the insert, and a French Polisher, who will match the finish on your new veneer to the existing. You'll probably find that both are the same person.

Paul Bennett · Joined: 05 Mar 2014 Posts: 90

Thank you Christopher; that sheds much more light on the subject.
Thank you Nicholas; I already had someone recommended in this line.
Regards Paul

Stephen Blakey · Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 8:39 pm Post subject:

Here are the pictures Paul sent me to load onto the forum.

Nice rev-counter! I can see it's going to be difficult to match the patina on the wood.

Paul Bennett · Joined: 05 Mar 2014 Posts: 90

Thankyou Stephen
I just realised that a better piece of potentially matching veneer could be an old picnic tray from any old RR or Bentley, (or Jag. etc.?) Should have asked around for one.
The open cubby hole is very useful for bits and bobs reachable whilst driving, eg. tissues, etc., so it would be good to save some of that space by having the tacho at one end and the rest open.
Experimenting if I can upload a picture here from my I-pad as can’t seem to be able from a Microsoft computer.
Regards Paul

Paul Bennett · Joined: 05 Mar 2014 Posts: 90

Here is someone else’s use of the cubby hole of a Mk VI.
(Excuse out of focus autofocus on a phone.)
Someone may guess whose car it used to be.

A very helpful RREC member just suggested that I look for a bit of antique furniture wood at the local auctions because most (so-called) “brown furniture” goes for a song these days.
As I am following the auctions every day, it worries me that I didn’t think of this myself; must be old age coming on?

Stephen Blakey · Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 5:38 pm Post subject:

Hi Paul,

That's a better sample of the wood, assuming it is the same as the dash. It's interesting that the finish is rather subdued. I wonder if they were like that originally or if it has lost some of its shine, or a bit of both?
When looking at restored cars with half a mm of mirror-finished two-pack lacquer on the woodwork , I can't help thinking, "Really? Are you sure about that?".
I thought you might enjoy this unnecessarily complicated dashboard I made for a pal's engine test stand.

I agree with the brown wood going for a song thing. I sold a property recently to a chap who does house clearances and he burns old furniture because it has no value. All that irreplaceable hard-wood. The world's gone mad etc etc....

Paul Bennett · Joined: 05 Mar 2014 Posts: 90

Hmm ... very interesting; an eight pot 3.9 V8?
I have had two Range Rovers in days gone by. The first (classic shape) was called a 3.9 and the second (P38) was labelled a 4.0 SE, even though both engines were the same capacity! Having never removed a plenum chamber I don’t know how many “trumpets“ there were?
Is it one of the Buick derivative engines and for a speedboat or a sporty car or a static display?
Very impressed that your standards are well above using a bit of chipboard for the instruments!

Stephen Blakey · Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 6:10 pm Post subject:

Hi Paul,

Yes that's a Range Rover block.

Those are four twin choke Webers, which was a period conversion mostly used for racing. It's going in a MGBGT hill climb/sprint car to replace a 3.5L with a four barrel Holley.

Who made your lovely tacho?

Is that Laurie's cubby hole?

Paul Bennett · Joined: 05 Mar 2014 Posts: 90

I am extremely impressed, Stephen; the MGB will probably take off with that under the bonnet!

My period tacho was made by:
Caerbont Automotive Instruments,
Abercrave, Swansea SA9 1SH
01639 732200
They now own the “Smiths” name and do a good range of instruments for classic cars. This was a “special”

Well spotted or guessed. Yes, that was the late Laurie’s Mk VI.
Seen at auction in 2016 where the bidding only went up to £10k, so I don’t know if it sold or not.

Regards Paul

Christopher Carnley · Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2020 11:32 am Post subject:

I wondered if the tacho, was electronic, as the R Continental runs off the distributor shaft.

Is that Emeritus Professor John, (Crack Man).s beast, and how does it manage to run without tail swing?

Stephen Blakey · Posted: Sat Oct 10, 2020 11:59 am Post subject:

It is. It's got the correct MGB axle but with a slippy diff and a clever rose-jointed multi link/coilover arrangement designed on Susprog (you may have to Google that). It puts the power down very successfully.

The total lack of rubber bushes mean the clonks from the rear end give a running commentary on the state of the road surface. Clearly anyone with any sense would avoid using such a thing on the road for more than a few miles.

We drove it to Le Mans to watch the historic racing.

There are plenty of modern road cars that are quicker and far cheaper but that's not the point really.

Stephen Blakey · Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:14 pm Post subject:

Paul,

Did you find a suitable piece of wood?

There's a few likely candidates in my barn including a small cupboard door that pre-dates your car by about a century but has a nice patina.

Stephen

Paul Bennett · Joined: 05 Mar 2014 Posts: 90

Thankyou for your kind offer, Stephen.
I had approached a wood expert who has found an almost matching piece of burr walnut veneer and is now making something up for me.

By the way, I saw your letter under another heading and 100% agree with your opinions, especially of VAG and the club's seemingly insidious relationship with them. Was the membership consulted?
Drivers of the Audi / Porsche-based "Bentleys" never seem to return my waved greetings to them when I pass in my R-Type.
Perhaps they don't see any connection with an "old car!"

Martin Webster · Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:18 pm Post subject:

Ha ha Paul! I have the same problem with my ‘proper’ souped up Beetle which was made before VAG took over Porsche. None of the drivers in the modern 911s return my wave either. Perhaps they are all struggling with their infotainment systems?

Martin
B88HR

Paul Bennett · Joined: 05 Mar 2014 Posts: 90

Conclusion :

John Murch · Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2020 9:14 am Post subject:

well worth all your efforts!

Stephen Blakey · Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2020 10:14 pm Post subject:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bentley-Rtype-Continental-Rev-Counter-And-distributor-Drive-Rare/283871854929?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160811114145%26meid%3D28ebe3b28c0347f7a5415321bd6303a1%26pid%3D100667%26rk%3D6%26rkt%3D8%26mehot%3Dnone%26sd%3D233700118435%26itm%3D283871854929%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2334524%26brand%3DBentley&_trksid=p2334524.c100667.m2042

I had assumed these were only fitted to R Type Continentals......

Christopher Carnley · Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2020 10:51 am Post subject:

Stephen,

That is Lord Essington,he bought it on ebay about 5 years ago for £500.00.
Pauls instrument is an electronic one, compare the red line positions.

There is an interesting video of Anthony, and his late friend all about the creation of "genuine" Bentley chassis frames.

Paul Bennett · Joined: 05 Mar 2014 Posts: 90

Thanks John, (but there wasn't really much effort on my part.)

Yes Stephen, I was only aware that rev counters were fitted on pre-war cars plus R and S Type Continentals. I would guess that the distributor drive system perhaps ended when the V8 came in with the SII, (but I don't know when electronic versions were introduced?)
The wooden dashboard section in the ad. looks a bit crummy, with that crude hinged end, ie. not up to Continental standard.

Perhaps it had been retro-fitted in a special, but the only R-Type Continental special I have read about was the late Alan Clarke's one that thieves fatally wrote off in the New Forest!

Paul Bennett · Joined: 05 Mar 2014 Posts: 90

Yes Christopher, I specified a 4,000 rpm red line when I ordered it. With the standard rear axle ratio giving 24 mph per 1,000 rpm in top gear the red line should really be higher at around 4,250 rpm but I don't exceed 3,000 = circa 70 mph (which is enough for me without seatbelts!)

bartonmd · Joined: 21 May 2021 Posts: 6 Location: California, USA

I have just completed repair of the wood frame around the passenger window. That taught me a good bit. I will add to that some general knowledge and informed speculation for what it is worth.

The structural bits and base for veneer certainly does appear to be Honduras mahogany -- a very popular wood among English cabinet workers for centuries. As mentioned in a previous post, the grain of the veneer is certainly consistent with and probably is a wood sold in the US as 'Claro Walnut'. It comes from commercial walnut groves in California. Nut production uses English walnut grafted onto root stock of a native California black walnut which is very beautiful but too uncommon to support much logging. The area near the graft produces spectacular figure and high prices.

Honduras mahogany varies in color from somewhat to a great deal redder than that seen in Bentleys. Claro walnut is MUCH darker -- from milk to dark chocolate with purple overtones. But the wood in my Bentley and those in photographs is a uniform amber. How can this be? The only way I know and have verified in my own experiments is to bleach it then stain it and/or finish with a tinted sealer.

The sealer in my 1952 car is lacquer. Nitrocellulose lacquer toned with Transtint brand color produced a very nice match for me.

The point of all of this is to say that, with care, a good match for your woodwork can be concocted with materials on the open market by a woodworker of modest skill.