s1 electronic ignition conversion

Justin Isaacs · Joined: 14 Jul 2017 Posts: 8

Hi - New to forum - Decided to convert to electronic - but cannot dynamically time as I can not seem to pick up timing marks 2 degrees BTDC with a strobe,Now seems to be running on 3 cylinders! Has anyone else had any success with this? Using a powerspark unit - model K29-If no luck will go back to points
Thanks

Mark Taxis · Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2017 6:30 am Post subject:

Not sure but the running on 3 cylinders could be as a result of the wrong unit, the S1 has twin point set up so it is a 3 cam distributor shaft (I think this is correct)
I gave up trying to dynamically time the engine, now just time it statically, seems to work well
_________________
Mark Taxis
Sunshine Coast
Queensland 4560

Dan Suskin · Joined: 22 Feb 2011 Posts: 298 Location: Georgia, USA

The dual points on that distributor do not function like most cars dual points (i.e. to both sets of points work together for each cylinder). One set operates 3 cylinders each.

Probably have the wrong electronic unit.

Nothing wrong with points.

Christopher Carnley · Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2017 2:45 pm Post subject:

The unit is specific to the Delco Remy distributor, but static timing is impossible as the device works by magnetically induced current within the rotor being transistor switched within the module.

The only difficulty normally encountered is the positioning of the module with regard to the air gap.

Contact Simon at Power Spark with your queries.

Justin Isaacs · Joined: 14 Jul 2017 Posts: 8

Thanks to all for your replies:
Powerspark insist I have the right one ( K29)
I'm relieved to hear someone else had problems dynamically timimg.I will have another go one day. AS to static timing , I still can't understand why it can't be done as the low tension / secondary coil circuit has to break somehow for the coil to operate and so there must be an indication of that , even if it is having someone else sitting in the passenger seat shouting out when the ammeter flickers( as my orignial manual suggests albeit for points.
Anyway , I can't believe I have had some sort of coincidental dual problem , but I am going to replace all the sparkplugs ( to rule out ) after that I will post pictures to Simon at Powerspark as suggested .
Does anyone know an alternative method for synchronising points , that doesn't warrent spending the best part of £100 simply to insure both sets of points open at same time?
Many thanks to all
Justin

Dan Suskin · Joined: 22 Feb 2011 Posts: 298 Location: Georgia, USA

Justin

Both sets of points don't open st the same time. Only the set that is needed for the spark plug to fire.

I'm getting a bit confused though. Are you having trouble timing the ignition to the car, or synchroniding the two sets of points?

Timing the ignition can easily be done with a timing light.

Synchronizing the points can be done statically in the car, or with a synchronizing tool on the bench, or best if all, with a distributor machine.

Justin Isaacs · Joined: 14 Jul 2017 Posts: 8

Sorry Dan -
At the moment I'm trying to dynamically or static time the elcetronic ignition.
What I meant was that if I fail - I'll go back to the points, but at the moment I'm trying to set the timing with the electronic ignition. Its difficult to sight the flywheel mark for 2 degrees BTDC with the strobe.My flywheel inspection hatch is at the bottom of the engine - not conveniently situated by the starter motor as I see on some you tube videos.I have moved the engine so the rotor is at 11 oclock . levered the flywheel a bit and can find the correct mark ( although it is not marked IGN ) I just go half way between TDc and 5 degrees before. Ideally at this point I would set the timing statically , and then I would set the strobe. Its just that when I try and strobe - my mark is just not coming up at all!Its not easy with the small window and where it is , so thats why I want to static time using the ammeter flick as an indication of when the secondary coil circuit is broken.

Christopher Carnley · Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:17 am Post subject:

It is not possible to statically time with the electronic conversion.

The simplified diagram shows the "reluctor" which in your case has 6 lobes, encased in the black resin annulus and precisely located by the 3 central cams on the distributor shaft.

The reluctor is soft iron and is only effective above 150 rpm. It relucts a very small small micro-current with the electro- magnet, shown to the left and earthed,which initiates a current switch in the transistor, both encased in the fixed module.
Soft iron is easily magnetised and easily demagnetised.
The transistor (from TRANSfer resISTOR) is also a current amplifier.
The module does not make up for any defects in the rest of the ignition system which should be checked for function.
Try a little Snowpake as a marker on the flywheel which with the auto gearbox is difficult to see.
The timing is not critical and was designed for engine smoothness and it is possible to set this at up to 10 degrees BTDC, without discomfort.

Incidentally, the fabulously wealthy playboy racing driver and former chairman of Bentley Motors, Woolf Barnato, should have been named Woolf Joel Isaacs, his fathers name being Barnet Isaacs.

Dan Suskin · Joined: 22 Feb 2011 Posts: 298 Location: Georgia, USA

Justin,

I mark the timing mark with a white paint pen. Easy to see with the timing light, even though you have to be under the car to do so.

I know noting of timing electronic ignition as I don't believe it's needed or any better than points (unless you rebuild the distributor too and replace the bushing, in which case it may be marginally better, assuming the rest of the car is perfect enough to realize it)

On one of my Silver Ghosts - which has dual coil ignition systems - I installed an electronic ignition system. I can switch each system off independently and run off one system only. I cannot tell which is which when I do that.

Gary Andrews · Joined: 23 May 2016 Posts: 34

Hi Justin

I use to be a points through and through man but now converted to

electronic ignition on all my classics.

I fitted a kit from simon on my mk 6 special and have never looked back

car runs sweet.

as to timing I just do it by ear advance til gets lumpy then retard

until sounding sweet . and no pinking under load.

obviously carbs need to be in good shape set up ballanced etc i work

between carbs and distributer fine adjustments by ear I do use a

carb balancer these days but even that can be done by ear just takes

longer . listening to each carb intake toget the same volume of sound.

mixture can be done by listening too lifting the dash pot with a small

screw driver (ie turning it from flat to upright ) if you dont have a dash

pot raising lever

you want the engine revs to rise then fall roughly back to starting point

then very slight adjustments if required one way or other till your happy

Dan Suskin · Joined: 22 Feb 2011 Posts: 298 Location: Georgia, USA

Adjusting by ear is fine, but will miss optimal performance.

Justin Isaacs · Joined: 14 Jul 2017 Posts: 8

Hello to all repliers:
Many many thanks - Its now all sorted
I suspected the low voltage "message" from the electronic unit was being interfered with by the HT leads. I actually ran the wires from the unit throught the HT "Tidy Tunnel"( for want of a better word). Perhaps this was too close .
Anyway I changed the leads to sillicone / grahite type - which Powerspark actually recommend anyway. While I was at it I changed all plugs/caps etc.
Bingo ! The car has never run better . I have just set the timing by ear at the moment but it absolutely stormed up the road, and didn't miss a beat.
This is a rolling restoration and I'm determined to keep the car driving on the road so I'm greatly relieved. Many thanks once again .....and on to the next "fettling issue"
Justin Isaacs ( No relation to Mr Barnato!

Christopher Carnley · Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 7:49 am Post subject:

It is good to sort out a niggle.

A daughter of Woolf Barnato, Diana Barnato Walker wrote a book about 25 years ago,relating " inter alia" her wartime flying experiences, she details the early Isaacs/Joel family relationships.and the origin of the Barnato name.

The title is "Spreading My Wings", and it is very interesting.

Justin Isaacs · Joined: 14 Jul 2017 Posts: 8

Hi Chris
I'll read it - maybe I'm related?
Unfortuanately my joy didn't last long.
3 mile run - perfect
another 3 mile run - perfect again
3rd run out - bang - same problem
Its sparking on all 6
Its not running on cylinder 1 and 2 and barely on cylinder 3.
Because I didn't have a major problem when i had points I just can't help suspecting the electronic kit/components I got from Powerspark.I got the K29 unit which i the correct one for a straight six , I believe o thats ruled out .

I am mystified how when I put new plugs and leads on it worked perfectly for 6 miles on 2 different runs then didn't on 3rd . before it had time to warm up.
If it were the carb I couldn't see itelf resolving then going back to the same problem coincidentally after changing the leads etc.

Absolutely baffled - but run out of time for the next week - so will send pictures etc to powerspark to see what they think - after that revert back to points- starting to give up on electronic ignition even though when it did work it was fantastic!
Yours gloomingly

Justin

Christopher Carnley · Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 9:09 am Post subject:

Justin,

Are the plugs oiled up?

Justin Isaacs · Joined: 14 Jul 2017 Posts: 8

Hi Chris
Sorry for the massive delay- My bentley got booted out of the Garage and a Kitchen was delivered . I have now built the extension and fitted the new Kitchen and perhaps more importantly the Bentley is back in the garage.
Was still running rough so on the suggestion of Powerspark fitted a new coil - although measurements suggested nothing wrong with old one. It made no difference. BUT - I cleaned up spark plugs and that was it. Turns out I have suffered a big coinicidence that the fitting the electronic ignition coincided with somehow the carbs having a fit. The mixture on one of the carbs is running far too rich . oiling up and causing rough running. I have taken them apart - cleaned the pistons in the airvalves ( which wern't sticking) blown everything out and reset the airscrew / mixture as best I can. I'm pretty sure I still need to balance the carbs so I'm going to make a adjustement collar to fit my vacuum guages. To be honest - I'm just enjoying running about in it once more.
Again a Huge thanks to all contributors . I'll be back with the next problem soon!
Justin