A Couple of Questions

Stephen Blakey · Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2021 4:49 pm Post subject: A Couple of Questions

I have been asked a couple of questions by a Bentley owning pal and was unable to answer them. I wonder if anyone can help please?

1. Does anyone have a paint code for a suitable shade of green for a vintage Bentley body? This always seems to throw up a lot of opinions and not much actual information, possibly for good reasons, but I thought I'd better give it a go.

2. I appreciate this should really go on the R-R forum, but does anyone know why the aluminium six cylinder engine is clearly referred to as an FB40 by BMC in the VDP workshop manual, but is always referred to as FB60 in R-R circles? Was that the correct R-R name for it, or have people just applied that to it over the decades? Or maybe R-R and BMC used different names for it e.g. you may think you've got a Thorneycroft Mallard, or whatever, in your boat but then everyone just calls it a Perkins 4108 (I dare say more up to dare metaphors are available)?

John Robins · Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2021 5:45 pm Post subject:

Was the FB40 the 4 cylinder version for the Austin Champ, or am I barking up the wrong tree?

Cheers
John

Christopher Carnley · Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2021 6:54 pm Post subject:

All of the production FB60 engines have a number that starts,
40FB*******, meaning "I am a 4 litre FB engine".

There were very few production vintage Bentleys painted green as it was seen as unlucky.
Light grey, deep red, the coffee and cream colours, brown light blue etc.
However, the international racing colour was decided on as green which may have been a light apple colour.
There are about 10 BRG,s, and the better ones are derived from light or dark Brunswick Green.
Tell your pal to get a bag of "chips".

The B40 was the engine designed for the "Champ", but 95% of them made by Austin, from R-R patterns, the castings were founded by Leyland Foundry, and also used more economical designs of parts.
Of 11,000 odd Champs, very unpopular they were, only a small number survive. Not a nice vehicle.

John Robins · Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2021 7:55 pm Post subject:

Thanks Chris, I’ll bark elsewhere!

I once laid my hands upon a complete B60 from a Ferret scout car. (Don’t ask) The difference between it and the one in my R-type is very noticeable and it wound up in a scrapyard, it made my Astra estate droop a bit at the back!

Cheers
John

Stephen Blakey · Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2021 10:33 pm Post subject:

Stephen Blakey · Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2021 10:36 pm Post subject:

John Robins · Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2021 10:42 pm Post subject:

On a wooden pallet using a fork truck. When I got home I extracted it using some Hanstock Engineering wind up wheel ramps and a couple of friends.

The Astra was an estate car which helped.

Cheers
John

https://picclick.co.uk/Adjustable-Car-Ramps-Hanstock-Engineering-Classic-HE-163072882160.html

Paul Bennett · Joined: 05 Mar 2014 Posts: 90

I presume that the FB60 engine was sold to BMC for the (Austin Westminster derived,) Vanden Plas 4 litre Princess R, as opposed to them being manufactured under licence like the Champ power unit.
I have briefly driven both in my youth, but only the Champ could reputedly go as fast backwards as forwards!
Did the 4 cylinder engine have any other applications?
Where did I read about surplus (Bren Gun Carrier) engines from Canada post-war, here or elsewhere?

John Robins · Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2021 5:29 pm Post subject:

I thought that the Bren Gun carrier used the Ford V-8 flathead engine. There were also MoD surplus Morris Eight engines which were used as tank starter motors.

Cheers
John

Paul Bennett · Joined: 05 Mar 2014 Posts: 90

Ah, yes John. Thankyou for jogging my memory.😀
I had been researching English Ford V8’s on line late last night and was obviously confused because I normally only research RR’s and B’s!
Had seen a couple of the Pilot versions up for auction at Barons on Tuesday but was looking for the model 62 that we had when I was a small child.
Trust you are well,
cheers Paul

John Robins · Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2021 6:47 pm Post subject:

I haven’t seen a 62 since I was a kid, probably attrition during the war, plus the relatively small production means rarity. They always seemed a more attractive design than the Pilot.

To return to the B60, the MoD version was used in various vehicles, iirc the Humber Pig, the Humber pickup, the Ferret and I think the Fox plus ambulances and fire appliances. The straight eight version seemed to find greater approval in the Dennis fire engines. The main difficulty is the thread system doesn’t match a Crewe built unit and its a cast iron cylinder head. In my case a fruitless exercise, but at least I didn’t spend much.

Thanks for asking, yes, still going, and trying to stay clear of the new Covid variety. I trust that the same applies to you and yours.

Cheers
John

John Robins · Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2021 8:21 pm Post subject:

On a similar area of thought, MoD had a programme of re-powering all of the Combat Vehicle Reconnaissance (Tracked) fleet from the Jaguar J60 to Cummins Diesel engines. There must be a lot of J60s under the bonnets of old Jags. This programme was followed by a similar exercise to remove the opposed-piston multi fuel K60 from the FV432 and variants in favour of the same Cummins diesel, but also involving a transmission change from a Self Changing Gears to an Allison unit. I don’t think that there would have been much of a second hand market for that engine.

Cummins flogged a lot of engines though!

Final note: Ford’s built 12,226 V8-62s in 1937-39, but 22,189 Pilots in the years 1947-50, possibly explaining the scarcity of the Model 62 in the sales.

Cheers
John